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Doctor Who Is Dead
Rainesz
Hugbot wrote:

I’ve never been into Who so this is strictly the view of an external obvserver.
Science fiction is about change; about imagining the unknown; about experimenting with new ideas; about speculating how things might work differently from the way we know.
Time will tell if this new idea will work. Saying in advance, ‘This can’t work because it is not the thing we know!’ is a surprisingly conservative attitude for people who, as sci-fi fans, should embrace the opportunity to venture out into unknown territory.
Wait until you have seen more of her than a 60 second clip. Then you can criticise her for how she is doing her job and not for being who she is.


Thank you, Hugbot. Well said.
 
President Solvite
I think we have all demonstrated here that we're not adverse to change. Indeed we have embraced/endured it until the next phase of Who. (JNT/Colin/Hiatus etc.. etc.. etc..)

Of all the things currently 'wrong' with Who making the Doctor a woman will not fix it in my view. Not that I wish Jodie any ill but I fear she will be the new Colin of the century lumbered with a bit of a lame duck. I understand and indeed applaud Colin's defence of the decision on social media as he sees Jodi now where he was back in the 80's. Whilst I am not a member of the nay saying (the pros being equally vocal!) baying mob my concerns that this is just a sticking plaster gimmick on a severed artery remains.

I love strong female characters from Ellen Ripley to Princess Leia in sci-fi to say Scarlet O'Hara in Gone with the Wind. Along with series like Outlander, Orphan Black and the plethora of police shows (most of which these days feature strong female characters) I do question this change necessity besides the need to fulfil the desire of the 'PC' crowd. It is more a question of judgement in my view than one of technicality.

Curse of the Fatal Death, indeed... I did love that sketch but as others have said it has now morphed into a sinister foretelling of our current situation.

I'm sorry Rainez/Hugbot/Richard Mk2 much as I see your point of view and agree with maybe the principle in certain areas, I remain on the other side of the fence with this one. I do however, remain open to the possibility of being blown away for the Christmas Special but experience tells me I probably will be underwhelmed. The fact that the Doctor is now female is pretty much immaterial but it will probably not help unless the story and reasoning are excellent. Please forgive me being a sceptical realist/cynic. In my view my country has made some pretty poor choices as of late so this is just the icing on the cake as it were. Grin
Edited by President Solvite on 17 July 2017 07:35:12
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
dragonq
Do you know something? I think fans are often surprisingly conservative. A fandom is often a comfort thing; fans like new, within limits, but they tend to need a lot of persuading that a radical change is really necessary and they don't like the powers that be messing with the back history and traditions of the fandom.

Fact is, if we'd been alternating male and female doctors over the last fifty years, no one would be blinking an eyelid. It has nothing to do with a woman's ability to play the part, and everything to do with the fact that the Doctor has always been male, and that there's no history of a regenerational sex change for a Time Lord prior to Missy. For people who been watching the show for decades, as many here have, this is difficult to come to grips with.
 
Anniew
I personally don't see why it can't work. Greek heroines like Antigone were strong protagonists but tackled issues in a very different way to the male rulers. As long as the Doctor's written as a strong woman and not as a man in a woman's body it could be fresh and exciting. Bit of eye candy in the form of a lovely male companion ( I predict Ralph Little but I'm hoping for someone lovely) and we're away.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
dragonq
President Solvite wrote:

I think we have all demonstrated here that we're not adverse to change.

...

I love strong female characters from Ellen Ripley to Princess Leia in sci-fi to say Scarlet O'Hara in Gone with the Wind. Along with series like Outlander, Orphan Black and the plethora of police shows (most of which these days feature strong female characters) I do question this change necessity besides the need to fulfil the desire of the 'PC' crowd. It is more a question of judgement in my view than one of technicality.

Grin


You and I are clearly on the same page, President Solvite. Of course, Orphan Black is a fantastic example within the sf genre of wonderful parts written for women. Let's have more tv like this!

My observation so far is that a lot of the people who are most enthusiastic about this casting are happy because it's perceived by them as a gender equity issue, not as an artistic decision (which is why they feel they have the right to label naysayers or the merely doubtful as sexist trolls, and shut down the debate).

In saying this, I would like to reiterate that I have no wish to attack Jodie per se. If things don't work out as a result of this decision, it will be the fault of others, not her.
 
Rainesz
Anniew wrote:

I personally don't see why it can't work. Greek heroines like Antigone were strong protagonists but tackled issues in a very different way to the male rulers. As long as the Doctor's written as a strong woman and not as a man in a woman's body it could be fresh and exciting. Bit of eye candy in the form of a lovely male companion ( I predict Ralph Little but I'm hoping for someone lovely) and we're away.


I like how you think, Annie. Wink

I'm a lifelong Who fan (I was born the week the show went on the air, in fact, in 1963— but my first Doctor was Jon Pertwee) and I love that it evolves. It's magic. And this is part of that. I love Peter Capaldi and I love that his Doctor is helping to usher in new and exciting things like this. But I'm an optimist. Wink

I don't mind disagreeing with everyone here. Wink
 
President Solvite
See I think this is the problem with many current shows (not just Who) pandering to the moment and providing as some have said 'eye candy' Personally speaking I want decent stories and concepts.. Don't we all ? (not denying eye candy either but its well down on my list!)

Like I said before I think this is more an error of judgement than technicality. Radical change? I suspect not, like I said earlier changing the Doctor's gender is more of a symptom than cause. I'll await the new series (not with baited breath) and will judge accordingly but suspect that my unease and doubt on this judgement will remain.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
dragonq
I'm a lifelong Who fan (I was born the week the show went on the air, in fact, in 1963— but my first Doctor was Jon Pertwee)


Ah! Another November 1963 baby! We are exact contemporaries! What date? I'm the 10th.
 
Rainesz
dragonq wrote:

I'm a lifelong Who fan (I was born the week the show went on the air, in fact, in 1963— but my first Doctor was Jon Pertwee)


Ah! Another November 1963 baby! We are exact contemporaries! What date? I'm the 10th.


November 17! Grin Hello, fellow Beatlemania baby!
 
dragonq
Rainesz wrote:

dragonq wrote:

I'm a lifelong Who fan (I was born the week the show went on the air, in fact, in 1963— but my first Doctor was Jon Pertwee)


Ah! Another November 1963 baby! We are exact contemporaries! What date? I'm the 10th.


November 17! Grin Hello, fellow Beatlemania baby!


Born to be fans, that's what I say!
 
Anniew
Hey I want good stories too - that's why I adore Blake's 7. But the appeal of the show ( and Blake's 7 ) has always included eye candy (most of it for the gents in the form of various attractive female companions - something that has not gone unnoticed by contributors to this site - but men too which I have appreciated!) as I said it will stand or fall by how it's written ...but as shows like the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo have shown, stories written with an interesting female protagonist, with a female approach to problem solving are watchable, popular, involving and different. And someone has already mentioned Ripley and Rey as popular female leads. Game of Thrones has some pretty impressive female rulers I understand, well written and offering different leadership to the male rulers. And I thought in the last series, Missy brought something interesting to the role of the Master and was far more engaging as a baddy than anything Anthony Ainley gave us and was far out- camped by him anyway.
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
President Solvite
Wow, lots have been said (and here I should be working!!! Grin )

I have been a Whovian since the Pertwee era.. (been watching Who from a very early age. I am told by my Mum that it was instrumental in my potty training!! )

@Dragonq - yes indeed I think we are on the same page, I am really criticising the process at the top, rather than the 'guys' on the ground. I suspect Jodie will be good in what she does. Capaldi was also good, I had more of an issue of the stories and the current format which is a real hit or miss with me. Rushed plot, overuse of poor plot devices, too many Deus ex machina solutions etc. I fear this will not change in the new series, unless I am very much mistaken.

@Rainesz - Magic its a marvellous thing to bring in but very difficult to explain away. Capaldi was indeed marvellous in his portrayal of the Doctor but I feel some of his stories let him down which in a shorter tenure tends to be more noticeable. I work in construction technology which is constantly changing. Some is good, some is bad, some is unnecessary. AutoCAD R13, Windows ME, Windows Vista/8 anyone? Pfft

So please forgive me if I'd prefer to wonder at the miracle of science rather than magic. For me there usually needs to be a credible cause and effect.

@ Anniew - there is no reason why it shouldn't work. But to be fair I don't think Jodi is the problem (well at least in my view anyway) Like I said lets have more series like Orphan Black etc.. rather than re-jigging old concepts.

Also if you want eye candy higher up that list fair enough, I'll grant you that Grin
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
Anniew
I have to admit, Mr President, that I usually enjoy shows more if I fancy one if the leads a bit...unless the stories are really boring or implausible ....( literally could not watch the Tennant and Smith eras of Who...too sentimental and then too confusing and conveniently resolved despite the charms of the leads and loved the Troughton era - so not always shallow ( Jamie did nothing for me)) Smile
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
President Solvite
Speaking of Kilts well okay Jamie.. has anyone on here been watching Outlander based on the books by Diana Gabaldon?

Never shallow, I would never think that of anyone here, just jesting really. I am pleased that the discussion here can be one of opposing sides without the petty name calling and insults that are apparent in other corners of the wibbly-wobbly-web.

I always enjoy a historical drama, with or without a main female character this has the former and is one of many recent examples (Orphan Black etc..) that makes the choice made, unnecessary in my view. In my opinion they should also make some new series of Sharpe and Hornblower but whilst I wait I guess Outlander will do Grin
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
Gauda Cheese
As someone who started watching Who and B7 as a kid it was never a titillation factor for me. That came much later. I loved looking at Karen Gillan by my goodness i hated her character!
http://stwco.word... Stuff and things written by me.
 
President Solvite
Whilst I appreciate the necessary plot device of the Girl who waited.. I found the child actor more of interest and would have formed a better long term plot dynamic.. Father and daughter or Uncle and niece or Grandfather and granddaughter would have made a better symmetry. than the rather naff imo fancying the Doctor mechanic.

Must hastily add now nowt wrong with Rory either Smile He could have been a concerned father perhaps.
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
littlesue
Well my first thought, upon seeing the reveal at Smallspace in a room full of Dr Who Fans, was Oh no...that's it, that Cloister Bell in the last episode was the death knell being sounded...
....I shall watch it and see how it pans out.
After all, we've had The Girl from Uncle; Police Woman, Honey West (I think I may have seen an episode of that, but it's soooo long ago) and other shows with strong females in them.
I'm trying to imagine how this will be explained to Dr Who's Grand Daughter Susan.......
....Daughter no. 1 had a far more complex worry...."As long as she doesn't have that flaming pretend Dorset accent!"
Cold.....you don't know the meaning of cold.
Cold is when you have ice on the INSIDE of the window!!!


sues stories http://sjlittle.w...
sues youtube channel http://www.youtub...e54/videos
sues book shelf https://www.media...ne%20Shelf
rebel run video http://www.youtub...prqS-XZtLo
Lara and Sue's Stories http://lectorisal....webs.com/
 
President Solvite
Well when the Bionic Woman came out Lindsay Wagner was a far better actor than Lee Majors. And I bet her singing was much better too.

https://www.youtu...4LX8PPMuOY

Come back Bill Shatner all is forgiven... hmm maybe not.. Grin
 
http://nothingsforgotten.freeforums.net/
trevor travis
My gut feel is still that the Doctor should remain male, and the whole thing feels like a gimmick. But it is fun watching the infamous Ian Levine go into meltdown:

https://twitter.c...

Wink

(The funniest part is the responses).
Edited by trevor travis on 17 July 2017 12:37:33
 
Anniew
Patrick Troughton on the subject https://vk.com/vi..._456239017
Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I won't.
 
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